Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: We can't expect to motivate on day one. Yes, we can, but not minute one.
But we can set the ball rolling. If you want to spread motivation, and motivation does spread.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: To have that. I think we call it metacognition, don't we? That sense that you know why the teacher is encouraging you to do certain things. I think that's incredibly motivating and will get students engaging and trusting.
[00:00:33] Speaker C: The key decisions about classroom management remain between lessons and that teachers often think they have to make smart decisions in the moment in the class.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: I think one of the things I found most helpful is thinking of the teacher as a team leader.
[00:00:46] Speaker C: What do the students see when they make a mistake?
How is the teacher reacting? That can set the tone for how they respond.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: You can't process more than one at a time. I think, you know, each lesson, if they can come up with one thing that they're going to try and do better, that's enough. You've done your job, haven't you?
[00:01:11] Speaker D: What I wanted to focus on in this episode is the. The creating that sense of community, the culture in the classroom. We talked about the motivation, being very dependent on the culture in the classroom.
And as you said, Ed, that's not day one. It's not something that just exists when you arrive.
How do you create that culture that you want to motivate your students to use the language, to learn the language?
That's a really simple question.
So I'm hoping you've got really clear, great ideas.
[00:01:46] Speaker C: Well, it's your class if you're the teacher, so you get to set the tone. You get to plant the first flag about what we do in this class, what we don't do in this class. And I think you're also an enforcer of that.
So Nick mentioned a couple of episodes ago, the students who hide, who feel they need to hide, the teacher can do an awful lot to help those students come out of hiding or to feel that it's okay to hide or whatever the case may be. So we're kind of cultural architects in a way, as teachers in the classroom, and we have that responsibility.
Yeah, that's a good place to start, I think.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: And models as well.
Yeah, Modeling with our own interest and passion and.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: Engagement.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: The role we were talking about in the previous episode as well, about what a teacher should be.
And I was. I think one of the things I found most helpful is thinking of the teacher as a team leader or. Yeah, imagine a coach in a sport like football or whatever. You'd have a halftime Sort of huddle or whatever, you would sort of try and bring a sense of togetherness. We are so good at this. We are great at this. You talk about the threats the group faced, you know, the other, the others, the other team. We can do, we can do this. And. And I think in a classroom you can treat the learners as a team as well. The common threat rather than an opponent could be another class. Actually, you could say, guys, you're so much better than this. In the other class, you are brilliant at this. But it also be a threat that's looming, like an exam coming up. Can't. We can defeat this. Come on, we can do it. Obviously, you know, the language will change a bit, but I think that idea that you are building a team, a community that are going to help each other and support each other and they're all going to participate and no one person is going to hog the ball or dominate. They're all going to pass the conversation to each other. They're all going to share and participate. And I often think of teaching maybe a bit like that, creating a team spirit.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: I think early on as well, you've got to identify who the key players are in the team. Key players in the sense of the ones who are most likely to spread the general vibe, definitely in the class. I mean, this is a proven thing. Sarah Jane Blakemore has done research into this about how if you want to spread motivation and motivation does spread.
[00:04:04] Speaker D: In your paper you use the phrase motivation contagious.
[00:04:07] Speaker A: Exactly. Yes. Yes. There's a lot of research and they've done experiments, investigation into this about how to.
The motivation isn't necessarily extrinsic or intrinsic. It's also almost like interpersonal, that I can, if I'm motivated and I'm the key player on the team, I can spread it to the teammates. We know this when we, you know, when we watch teams, it's not just the coach, it's also the captain. The captain?
Yeah. Or the goalie or whatever it is that the one that's going to spread and we can use that in a class. And if we really, really observe and I think listen to our students right the first day, get them speaking, get them interacting and really listen and notice, then we can sort of consciously motivate specific students and allow that to spread. That sounds a bit like favoritism. It's not that, but it's the way that we work with people going around speaking to them individually, if they're mingling, just using our presence and allowing attitudes to spread through the Group is very important, and if we can do that quickly, then that really reduces the effort later on. You know, Ed was saying we can't expect to motivate on day one. Yes, we can, but not minute one.
But we can set the ball rolling, definitely.
[00:05:47] Speaker B: I think as well as having those key sort of champions or people who can motivate others, I think also making sure that everyone understands the role they play in that particular group.
And sorry to go back to the team thing again, but if you were in a team, you'd have different positions. You're right wing, that's good at crossing a ball. Perhaps someone who's a striker in a classroom as well. You might have someone that's great at, I don't know, researching something online, or someone that's great at creating a conversation starter, someone that makes the group laugh all the time, finds amazingly funny things. And I think making sure that everyone feels a sense of value in the classroom.
I mean, one of the things about language teaching is that so many people feel really useless at it. I certainly did.
But to make. Making them feel they are valued in that space for whatever it is, for participating, you know, in. In the learning experience, I think that's so important.
And every member of a team has to feel that they have a key place.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:44] Speaker B: And we need to make sure every student, I think, in the classroom also knows what they bring to the table.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: Exactly. Because the dominant student is not necessarily the most influential student in the room.
[00:06:53] Speaker C: Totally.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: They may be the one that the other students shy away from.
So, yeah. To find out who is the most or who are preferably the most, not influential. That sounds like manipulating students, but the kind of. The subtle influence that they'll have on their colleagues, the ones that are most respected.
[00:07:15] Speaker B: Well, I think, yeah. And if you do have a student who's a bit of a natural leader as well, making sure that that negative contagion sometimes doesn't spread. If you do have one student who sort of sets the tone for the group a little bit, making sure that they are, I suppose, motivated. I mean, you've got to make sure everyone is. But if one student starts to yawn or whatever, I think it can happen with anyone. But, you know, particularly some students, the others will start to, oh, it's not as cool because he's not. Or she's not engaged.
And you only have to get one student saying, oh, I love this text. You've chosen whatever. And the other suddenly, oh, well, then I do too.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: So it's. It's very important.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: I Think.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: And ideally, if it's student or students that move between little groups rather than ones that belong to.
Yeah. There's usually students that remain fairly neutral in terms of cliques. They're the ones to.
[00:08:12] Speaker D: In your paper, you talk about approaches to getting students to work together.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:19] Speaker D: So you mentioned cleats there, but I think there was also talk of the. The positive side of people being able to choose who they work with.
How do you balance that? How do you allow people to work together with the people they choose without creating some kind of negative impact through cliques?
[00:08:41] Speaker B: Gosh, that's such a good question.
I'm a Philly. They call it, don't they, words, choosing the person you work with. Because.
And I think I remember, Fiona, in the past, we've had conversations, you've mentioned this idea of tribes and that classes are tribal. Students have to feel that they are in this.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: I mean, cliques. That's. I. This is a word that I've thrown in, and it's the wrong word. I need to find a better word. Yeah. I don't know.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: Little social groups within.
[00:09:08] Speaker C: Is that not a clique?
[00:09:09] Speaker A: Yeah, but clique's got that negative connotation. Exclusiveness to it isn't there? It isn't always that. It's.
That's what Nick just said. It's the way that tribes work. There are little social subgroups within a tribe.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: I think you've got to stop that developing.
I mean, I think getting students to choose who they work with just isn't going to work once they're in a class. Everyone. It has to be one team, and you have to be that team leader. It has to be one group.
I think you can be aware of if students have particular issues with other students and you don't, you know, if. If someone, for example, has had a big falling out online or whatever with another student, you need to be aware of that. Separate them if possible, but not in front of everyone. Just be aware of issues that some students have with each other. And if you see one student really not talking with another, you can say, well, let's. Let's change the groups. Why not for, you know, we. We put you in that group before. I want to have a bit of variety, and that's perfectly legitimate as a teacher to do that. So keep monitoring, checking if groups are working. But don't allow students, I think, to rigidly stick to their groups.
I think as long as it's done in a democratic way, students are happy to allow you to group students. So you can just say, right, let's pair up.
You see, you go 1, 2, 3, 4. 1, 2, 3, 4. Put the ones together. The twos, the threes. That's a standard classroom practice. So I don't think any student will say oh I'm not working with my friend. They'll know that next time. They can.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
It's standard practice in all classrooms, isn't it? It's classroom management.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:44] Speaker A: And I think it's.
[00:10:45] Speaker C: They can leave their bags by their seat, they feel more comfortable. So I think the fear is not working with someone else. It's the fear of not being able to return to come back.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Yes. Back to their home.
[00:10:54] Speaker C: So by gradually phasing in these activities where I'm going to mix it up a little bit. No, no, you leave your bag, you can go back to where you are. I think is important.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: Yeah, totally.
[00:11:03] Speaker C: I would. From my experience, the key decisions about classroom management are made between lessons. And often teachers often think they have to make smart decisions in the moment in the class.
I think the only thing you have to do as a teacher is to notice what's happening and not to ignore what's happening. And I think that teachers make the mistake.
I think when I've lost a class in the past, it's through ignoring or not responding, not noticing things that happening. I didn't always manage to remedy things during the lesson, but I sure as heck thought about them between lessons. And I think going into the next lesson and using the start of the next lesson as an opportun to reflect on, remind or discuss with the class something which happened the previous lesson or to make changes to seating arrangements can be a very impactful way of helping the students to see that you're driving the culture of the class and that you're going to make things which are of benefit to everyone including, including those who feel unsafe and also including those who are dominant students.
And I have other ideas about handling dominant students which are not really part of this conversation. But yeah, it's about how we think about our classes between less that makes the difference.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: I think a tutorial space is useful as well because it's not always easy to read students, particularly if they're from different part. I'm thinking about my Asian students.
The non verbal cues are very different.
But I do find that in the tutorial space that we give them, that's when I discover some issues that I.
[00:12:37] Speaker B: Do you mean like a one to one space? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: And every two or three weeks I have a little, you know, Schedule a little one to one where the others are doing something and I'm sitting in my office, which is next door to classroom. They come in for a quick 10 minute chat. Sometimes it's longer if it's an official tutorial, you know, in with capital T. But I also just particularly on the longer course, it's not the shorter ones, but the year long ones.
I do find that some of the quieter students, maybe they're quieter because they're not getting on with somebody, but it's not obvious in the class.
Or maybe they're tired of always working with the same person, but they don't say it out of respect or for some funny reason I haven't noticed that they never get to work with such and such another person and they want to have a go at that for whatever reason talking to them.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
They will perhaps not even be part of a group in the class, but as long as you make sure that you have that relationship with them.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:44] Speaker B: And that they feel that you want them to be there and that you are create, you know, willing to give them the time, as you said through.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: The tutorials, then the teacher is a group member.
[00:13:53] Speaker B: The teacher remember. And you can signal that they belong just by the way you include.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:59] Speaker B: So I think that's really important.
[00:14:01] Speaker D: How do you feel about kind of more explicit discussion of rules of engagement in a class?
Is that something that you find positive?
How to respond to others, how they will express their disagreements and things like that?
Is this something you experiment with?
[00:14:22] Speaker C: I think it's an important component of beginning a course. Some teachers like to have an actual contract on the wall. Others like to do it in a kind of iterative way and work on it as they go.
[00:14:33] Speaker D: Right.
[00:14:34] Speaker C: I think it's definitely important for everyone to know where they stand and for teachers to be decisive about responding to things. I always think the worst thing I can do as a teacher is to ignore something.
[00:14:45] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:14:46] Speaker C: So I think we all have our own stories and approaches to this.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: But I think the teach, ironically, the contract, I find I need that more when I'm training teachers than when I teach. Yeah. Because when I'm in the classroom, you know, my students, they're in other classrooms as well, they kind of know the game.
I'm not teaching adults, I'm teaching younger adults, teenagers. So they know what. Yeah, exactly. They know what the score is. But it's when I get a group of teachers in the room who are used to being the boss in their classroom or whatever it is, that's the ones I have to do the contract with. Yeah, that's interesting.
[00:15:28] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: I think that whole idea of students sort of creating rules as well is so important for them to get a sense that, yeah, they're owning the whole experience. It's their learning experience.
And it's funny, if you ask students to set the rules, they'll often be way more draconian than your own would be.
You know, teachers always right or you must always try hard and you think, wow, okay, that's if you want to, you know, go that route. It makes you feel, I think, less authoritarian as a teacher.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:57] Speaker B: You understand that some of these students actually love structure. They love discipline. In fact, they all do.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:02] Speaker B: Some students like nothing more than for you to lay the boundaries and say, you know what you're going to do next and you know, to sort of clearly establish the parameters for them to interact within a control they. On the online world, I think it's very disconcerting, isn't it, when they don't have that authority and there's always a chance that someone will say something inappropriate or come in with, you know, be bull. Bullying, bullied, be, be critical of each other. And I think in the classroom you create safety with rules, don't you? You allow students to feel finally there's regulated space where they don't feel judged or there's a threat from someone bullying or whatever.
[00:16:39] Speaker D: I think it is it's that protection from, from the other students perhaps behaving inappropriately. They're learning. I think that's right. I'm a great fan of explicit rules put on the wall, the contract and all that. Not so much for me as a teacher, but for students in their peer to peer interaction, it gives them an authority to, you know, to say that's not. You can't do that or something like.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: That on point to say, don't forget number five.
[00:17:08] Speaker D: Yeah, exactly like that.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: I think also in the online classroom it's very useful as well because think behavior for adults behavior as well as kids is a bit different than the online classroom.
A bit more. I'm in my own home space so I can do what I want. I'll sit and eat popcorn while.
[00:17:27] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:17:28] Speaker A: While listening to the teacher or whatever.
[00:17:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:30] Speaker D: Because the teacher. Your physical presence in a classroom.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:33] Speaker D: Proximity control.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: Definitely.
[00:17:35] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: I also find that because I'm teaching a language and I want my students to speak and listen, obviously depending on individual personalities, I guess I do often at the beginning of the course explain the, the cognitive and then literally the physical Reasons why it's a good idea to speak and, and not just sit and listen or rock back and forwards on there chair. And in a sense that's me saying, I expect you to speak at least sometimes I don't care what you say as long as it's in English and polite and respectful.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: So important.
[00:18:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:21] Speaker B: The idea of making students know why they are doing everything they're doing.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: So that they feel motivated. I mean, we talk about motivation to learn a language, but that's very different from motivation to engage in every task the teacher sets and to have that. I think we call it metacognition, don't we? That sense that you know why the teacher is encouraging you to do certain things. I think that's incredibly motivating and will get students engaging and trusting the teacher as well, that, you know, may not have it right, but they're doing it with a clear purpose or understanding of how they learn.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: Yeah. It shows that you know what you're talking about, which is a good starting point.
But it also encourages them to not just speak English when they're doing an activity, but also when they're the little casual exchanges that might go on between activities, like, you know, your chair's on my bag or whatever. All this stuff to do in English.
[00:19:18] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:19:18] Speaker A: So, you know, I would say try to. Whatever you say in this room, try to say it in English. It doesn't matter what it is, even if it's. Can I have a tissue, please?
And go on about, you know, the physicality of speech and how it affects learning.
Hi, I'm Fiona Mauchlin. Nick and I teamed up with some amazing contributors to co author a position paper all about how motivation and social interaction go hand in hand in English language learning.
It's called the Human Motivation and Social Learning and it's packed with insights.
We explore the benefits of face to face versus online learning and discover how to link learners online worlds with your classroom.
There are also some practical strategies to help you boost motivation in your classrooms.
Get the paper for free today by clicking on the link in the description.
[00:20:15] Speaker D: Picking out some of the things you said in your paper, there was a nice thing about the importance of those phrases which are needed for social interaction, that it's your turn.
[00:20:24] Speaker A: And playing games.
[00:20:25] Speaker D: Yeah, games and things like that.
[00:20:26] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: You're cheating.
[00:20:28] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: It's very important.
[00:20:30] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: Cheat.
[00:20:31] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:32] Speaker D: I have a very strong memory of that as a teenager going to France to on an exchange and finding myself in it, having spent all my time learning French in terms of Accuracy of sentences, Finding myself in social interactions where I had none of the language for that. I spent two weeks mastering all that, going back to the classroom back in England and being proud of my ability to interact. And then it was completely useless.
I didn't know how to spell the phrases that I could say. And so.
[00:21:07] Speaker A: Yeah, so a bit like those throwaway phrases that we use in the class a lot. And then like Ed and I were discussing the could be thing earlier.
[00:21:16] Speaker C: Yeah, say more about that.
[00:21:17] Speaker A: About could be.
[00:21:18] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: Well, I say so when I ask my students a question in class and they give an answer, I don't say yes, you're correct or no, it's. I say could be. And then I invite another person to answer and could be. And because I say could be so much.
Well, one, they speak. More and more people speak. But two, all my students imitate me by the end of the year, every time I ask them a question, they just go, could be. Not sure they can spell it, but they could be.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: I think there is also the. Because I mean, obviously the lovely thing there is you're providing little phrases, all snippets all the time.
So I think it's wonderful. But I think also it's important when we're thinking about rules of engagement, that we are of interaction, rather, I should say not. Not a battle that we allow students to use their first language as well because it tells us what they don't know, what they need help with, and it's that identity as well. So very often students online, whatever they'll be using, it's inter language and switching and using L1, then L2, and to sort of deny them that. What I suppose could mean that in that their sense of sort of identity, who they are is being challenged, like, no, your language is not valued in this space.
So I think what you. I definitely want to not miss those opportunities to teach them little snippets and get them to interact naturally in English. But I suppose allow the L1 to come in and then use. When it's used, say, ah, how could we say that? Can we translate that? You know what I mean?
[00:22:56] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: And I think that's a lovely.
[00:22:58] Speaker C: I know of a technique of this is for teachers working in monolingual contexts, noticing the language that students are using for their. Their logistical needs, you know, can I borrow the pencil sharpener, whatever it might be, making a note of them privately as a teacher and then writing them on the board in English at the end of the class in the last five minutes and getting the students to copy them down, and also to try and guess what they mean. These are phrases. This is student language noticed by the teacher, translated into English and then copied down by the students. And I think with the young learners in particular, that's a very motivating way to bridge that gap from the first language to the second language and make it something which is owned by the students.
These are the words that you were using in this class. What do you think?
[00:23:46] Speaker D: Yeah, I get a great idea, but probably not pencil sharp. More likely mobile phones.
[00:23:50] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:23:51] Speaker C: As I said that, I thought that was probably a bit of an outdated example.
[00:23:55] Speaker A: I do like a language swap for that kind of thing. They teach me how to say it in their language, and I teach them how to say it in my language so that I now know how to say, oh, I made a mistake in Japanese, and I know how to say left and right and these things in Japanese. And then, you know, I say them in Japanese and they say them in English.
[00:24:16] Speaker D: So have you ever perhaps inherited a class or got a class where you can see they're just too afraid of making mistakes?
They got so used to, perhaps from a previous teacher, of being corrected, and so they. They don't want to take risks.
What would be your steps towards trying to overcome that, trying to get them to build the confidence to take risks?
[00:24:45] Speaker C: It happened an awful lot to me. And the first thing I would do would be to signpost very clearly that I was interested in and welcoming of people's efforts to speak in class and that I found that their mistakes were great learning opportunities and were not stigmatized. So I would not. I would never criticize or show frustration or exasperation with a student's mistake. I would always lavish them with praise for having made an effort and then later on in the class, perhaps not straight away, use it as a chance to explore some. Some language accuracy work. But again, what do the students see when they make a mistake?
What is. How is the teacher reacting? That. That can set. Set the tone for how they respond. And would I be able to turn it around in one lesson?
[00:25:29] Speaker D: No, no, that's. Those are the steps.
[00:25:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I also think, trying to make sure students understand why that mistake could be an issue rather than it's wrong, because it's wrong saying, for example, if a student says, what did you do?
When perhaps I've made a mess or something, rather than, what have you done?
And the confusion that might arise if they do phrase it like that. So it's not so much that it's a Mistake. It could just create confusion. I think that's a way of doing it as well.
So explaining why it's necessary to correct things.
It could create this impression or, you know, and I think then students think, oh, okay, yeah.
[00:26:08] Speaker A: It's just.
[00:26:09] Speaker B: I just not being wrong. I'm just not producing the clarity that is necessary.
I think that's where I think.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: I don't know, my head is now going. There's so many things you can do. Yeah, yeah, that's true, I guess.
I mean, I think I do this automatically, like you.
I've had many cases of classes where they come in and they've seemed to be more traumatized by previous experiences.
[00:26:38] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: So all kinds of activities early on that show that fluency is as good or sometimes better than accuracy.
I was mentioning a game to you earlier that I've discovered recently called Shot in the Dark.
And it's actually cards, but it would be easy to make.
It's where you are. You put your students into small teams. I think the original game, it's individuals, but my version of it is small teams. And then you ask questions that have an almost impossible answer, something that they're not really going to know, and you put a timer on it and they discuss together in their teams.
And then it's the closest. For example, what year did the banana first arrive in the British Isles?
Come on, gents, what year did the banana first arrive in the British Isles?
[00:27:31] Speaker D: Well, it must have been.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: Exactly. And it's when they discuss. And going, well, it couldn't have been. It must be before.
And it's very clear they're not going to get the exact. Well, they might get the exact answer.
[00:27:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:46] Speaker A: I don't know how many liters of Coca Cola does the average American drink in a year or something like that. You know, something like that. And they've got to speculate. The chat. You put a timer on it. But you're already creating the kind of. The idea that you don't always have to be. Right.
[00:28:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:05] Speaker A: Just speak.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I suppose with language then as well. If they. They would come up with things like it can be.
[00:28:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: Rather than it. It could be. Which would have a very different meaning. Like, so you're rather than making a suggestion.
[00:28:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: So I suppose that would provide a really nice clear context and you could almost create the language that is going to work in that.
[00:28:26] Speaker A: I was going to say you feed in because they start saying, it is, it isn't. It is, it isn't. And then you start feeding and saying, how about it? Might be. It could be you're feeding it the value problem. Exactly. And you just feed it in and you just. In a very supportive role.
[00:28:42] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:28:43] Speaker A: And then obviously celebrate the closest answers and the funniest answers and whatever.
[00:28:48] Speaker B: Isn't that interesting that how perhaps you could preempt problems rather than correct them when they happen.
[00:28:56] Speaker A: But also because we ourselves, we, you know, none of us at the table make zero mistakes when we speak. We probably. I don't know how many we'd make in any given class. If we're speaking slower, we'll make fewer. But in a normal conversation we make plenty.
Quick check. Did I say the right word there? Yes, I did.
And to draw attention to some of our mistakes, you know, for confusing fewer and less or whatever, or forming our comparatives incorrectly.
[00:29:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:26] Speaker A: Suddenly say, by the way, don't copy what I just said. That was a mistake kind of thing. And make sure that it's clear that we make mistakes sometimes.
[00:29:34] Speaker D: True.
[00:29:34] Speaker B: But I think, you know, on the the other hand, we can go too far. And I think that you do get teachers that would say, that was, that was so good. I really, really like your comment.
Well, I wonder if I can make it even better. And I think students see through the kind of Molly coddling that we sometimes use. And I think they do want you to. So not over, not pretend it was brilliant if they know actually I messed that up. They don't want you to say, oh, that was amazing, you did.
And well, some might do. But I think you've got to be, you've got to be, I think, frank with students.
[00:30:08] Speaker A: You've got to be honest, honest with them.
[00:30:10] Speaker B: And that's what they're paying their money for. If they're being, you know, paying. Or that's what they expect in a school. They're giving their time because they want you to correct them.
[00:30:19] Speaker A: But this comes back to what we're talking about, about motivation and interaction. Our interactions with them need to be honest and authentic to who we are.
[00:30:29] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:30:30] Speaker A: You know, I wouldn't be rude and aggressive in a normal conversation. So I'm not going to, you know, if you make a mistake in your grammar, I'm not going to jump on you in a normal social situation.
But I might say, sorry, I didn't quite catch that. Can you say it again or can you. I'm not following you. Could you.
And I would do the same to student.
And then they see that, don't they? They see that you're being yourself. That's right.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: And anonymizing the Mistakes as well, I think, say, well, I heard these things, let's put them on the wall or on the screen.
And then, you know, they know it was them.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Oh, it was me.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: That's right. But they're not ashamed, you know, but.
[00:31:13] Speaker A: They shame themselves when they go, oh, that was mine.
[00:31:15] Speaker C: Possibly.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: But yeah, that's true. But as long as you get everyone to walk away with one thing and the other thing is mistakes, you know, you can't process more than one at a time. I think, you know, each lesson, if they can come with one thing that they're going to try and do better, that's enough. You've done your job, haven't you?
[00:31:31] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:31:32] Speaker B: As a teacher. So I think, you know, and a.
[00:31:35] Speaker D: Lot of this, of course, is standard things around scaffolding and supporting. You mentioned earlier about letting people write their questions before they, they ask them or even write their answers.
Written role plays, all these ways of building up that confidence.
So it's not just about responding to errors and accepting them, but actually reducing that feeling of risk and also allowing.
[00:32:00] Speaker A: Them to set or asking them to set like micro objectives, like two or three mini objectives for the week.
[00:32:06] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: And then so post its again or something you put on the wall, like a little whiteboard or something, you know, what do you want to achieve this week? I want to learn five verbs or I want to sort out my confusion between can and could or whatever it is and then okay, and anything else we don't worry about. So let's just aim for that.
And that takes the pressure off as well a bit.
[00:32:31] Speaker D: I mean, that kind of reminds me how you started this, Nick, with that sense of being the team coach and working together and what are we trying to achieve, how we're going to beat the other class and all those things. I really love that kind of image, you know, the team coach, building a team.
I think we had a really good workout on this on this topic. I think we've covered so many areas. I hope listeners have found this a really useful discussion. I think it's been really interesting. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you.
[00:33:02] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:33:04] Speaker D: That brings us to the end of our final episode in our series on motivation and social learning. Thank you to Fiona, Nick and Ed for joining us and sharing their insights, expertise and experiences. I really enjoyed the discussion on a topic that is as important as it has ever been for language teachers around the world to explore the topic in more depth and gain more strategies to implement. Click on the link in the description to download our position paper on this topic, the human connection, motivation and social work.
To our listeners and those watching, thank you again for being part of the Talking ELT community. It's your curiosity, care and commitment to your learners that makes chats like this so worthwhile. So thank you for being here with us.
Don't forget to like and subscribe if you want to learn more about this issue and others like it. We'll see you next time on Talking Eltra. Sam.
