Episode Transcript
[00:00:07] Speaker A: Hi and welcome to this very special episode of Talking elt.
Today we're stepping into the fast moving world of content creation and how it connects with one of the hottest trends in language learning.
[00:00:21] Speaker B: Right now, microlearning, it's more about our learners because we create content based on what students actually need.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: I'm joined by two super cool guests who you may already know from your social feeds and our channels. Marwan Abdallah, also known as English, with Rahel and Alex Fielder, AKA Teacher Alex.
We'll be diving into their journeys as ELT professionals, their global teaching experiences and their current paths in education.
[00:00:55] Speaker C: It's really nice when you travel to different places. You're able to help people develop their English skills, build that confidence. For me, that's always the nicest thing, seeing someone's confidence grow with anything and if it can be English, then fantastic.
[00:01:09] Speaker A: Then we'll explore how they made that leap into content creation.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: They trust you more because you are consistent, but if you lose that consistency, I think going to lose followers at the same time. This is how the algorithm works.
[00:01:23] Speaker C: I very much make sure it's like this or this or this, which is annoying for them.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: You're quite demanding.
[00:01:29] Speaker C: I am quite demanding.
I am a diva. Yeah. When it comes to that and what.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: It means for the future of language learning, especially for learners from Gen Alpha, you seem to be saying that students kind of are doing the work themselves. They're managing to kind of connect those moments themselves somehow. Because they're Gen Alpha, they have that sort of ability to put it together. It's going to be interesting, it's going to be fun and you might even feel inspired to give content creation a go yourself afterwards.
Hi, Marijuana and Alex, welcome along. Great to have you on board.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: Thanks a lot for having me.
[00:02:14] Speaker C: Yeah. Good to see you. How's it going?
[00:02:15] Speaker A: It's going great, thank you.
So the first thing I'd like to ask you is, is this your first visit to Oxford University Press? Marijuana.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Well, this is going to be my second visit.
Well, I visited Oxford a few months ago, but at the time it was too cold, but today it's quite the opposite, it's too hot.
So I would say it's boiling now. So, yeah, let's see how the trip will go.
[00:02:43] Speaker A: Fantastic. Great. Alex, first impressions?
[00:02:47] Speaker C: I think it's very nice. It's a very beautiful building, which is always great to come in too. And everyone's been really friendly. Really nice today. So, yeah, having a great time. But yeah, it's my first time.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: Good. Okay. So welcome Along. Alex, how did you first get into the ELT business?
[00:03:03] Speaker C: That is a good question.
So takes me back, to be honest.
It was probably when I was at school. There was lots of international students in my secondary school, so I was kind of tasked with being their buddy. Lots of these people who weren't feeling confident with their English. So I had no training, no education in, you know, teaching English as a second language, but just trying to be friendly and welcoming. And I just really enjoyed that aspect of helping people in that way. And then completely went away from that, did education, different things. And then I think it was during COVID or just before COVID I went to India, actually, and there were some friends there doing English, working in different education centers there. Got involved, did my training, and then kind of just went from there, basically.
[00:03:55] Speaker A: Fantastic. Good. And I must ask, okay. You recently got married, didn't you?
[00:04:00] Speaker C: Yeah, guilty.
[00:04:01] Speaker B: That. Congratulations.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:04] Speaker C: Yeah, about four weeks ago, so still going well.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: Oh, fantastic. That's good to hear that it's lasted at least four weeks.
[00:04:09] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: And how do you feel in that? Different. Different state, different situation. Does it feel different?
[00:04:15] Speaker C: Does it feel different?
Yeah, it feels different, but in a good way. I feel like I've stepped up, you know.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Good.
[00:04:21] Speaker C: I've tried to.
Yeah. Stepped up. Yes. More responsibility, obviously. I've got a beautiful wife and. Yeah, very happy. And moved to a completely new area as well. So all the change all at once.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: Fantastic.
[00:04:35] Speaker C: Yeah, it's going really well. Thank you.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: Good stuff. Good stuff. Great. So, Mariban, what about you?
How did you get into the ELT business in the first place? Because I know at the moment you're in London and you're at King's College. So tell me about that kind of connection between ELT and King's College and what you do now.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: Okay. So it all started with one idea.
I said to myself, what, what, what if I could teach beyond classrooms? Because I noticed that there are so many people who are turning to the social media platforms to learn English.
So I said to myself, I should create a platform to help those students who like to learn English as a second language.
So what I did was I started creating a platform on Instagram. At first, I did it just for fun, to be honest. I just wanted to share some tips to see how it went. And then, well, luckily I recorded some videos and they went very viral, which I didn't expect. It. People started sharing the videos, writing down positive comments.
So I said to myself, this is what I should be doing for the rest of my life.
So, yeah, I didn't expect it would take off that way.
So. Yeah.
And concerning the King's College London, as I told you before, so now I'm doing my Master's degree in Applied Linguistics and English Language Teaching at King's College London. So this academic course has helped me to understand how language works and how students can learn it.
So it made me create my content or lessons more effectively than before.
So now I create lessons that are research backed. So instead of sharing random tips on the social media platforms, I try to.
I create some lessons that are research backed so that my students can get benefit from it much better. So yeah, it's been, yes, a life changer, to be honest.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: Yeah, it sounds like it. And it's clever the way you've now got the academic underpinning.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: To what you're doing.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: I mean, initially maybe you were thinking, okay, this will land well, but now you're thinking, research tells me it will.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: Fantastic. Brilliant. Good. Okay. Alex, you know, back in the day you were a regular teacher. You traveled, presumably taught English as a foreign language or a second language. Tell us a little bit about sort of where you went, who you met and what you learned.
[00:07:13] Speaker C: So I tried to sort of every winter travel somewhere different, warmer. Basically. Yeah, I like to be in the sun.
And one of my favorite times was probably I went to Uganda in Africa and worked in. It wasn't necessarily specifically teaching English because there was needs for lots of different things there and there it was children at that point. I don't usually work with children anymore, but specifically it was an orphanage there in Uganda. And that was a really amazing experience because you can see how when they started to feel more confident with their English, their just whole. Their attitude completely changed and they felt so much more confident. They were able to communicate so much more and feel like they could be. Their life was open to more opportunities, it felt like. So it's really nice when you travel to different places, are able to help people develop their English skills and talk with native speakers. People they've. People who they've never seen before and you know, have those conversations, develop those skills, build that confidence. For me, that's always the nicest thing, seeing someone's confidence grow with anything and if it can be English, then fantastic. But yeah, traveling and doing those type of things has been really rewarding and I would recommend it to anyone. You travel a lot?
[00:08:35] Speaker A: I have traveled a lot in my.
[00:08:36] Speaker C: Where have you been?
[00:08:37] Speaker A: I've been all over, to be honest. I've been to Saudi Arabia three Times, really. I haven't really been to Latin America much. Okay, that's next on my bucket list. But pretty much everywhere else. I just want to pick up on one really interesting thing you said about seeing the confidence grow.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: I mean, marijuana. Most of your content is online almost exclusively. You've got something crazy like 1.7 million followers.
You can't actually kind of see your.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: Your learners.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: I mean, maybe they can like and they can love and do whatever else they do, but how do you get that kind of live feedback? How does it work for you?
[00:09:11] Speaker B: Well, it's me personally, so I. When I receive those, you know, comments from my students, I feel absolutely delighted because students usually write down positive comments in my videos, and when I see those comments, it makes me try harder to make better content for them.
There are times I correct their mistakes as well in the comment sections, so it takes me a while to reply to all the comments, but I do my best to reply as many comments as I can.
So, yeah, I usually receive very positive feedback from my students, especially in the comment section.
So there are times that they write down some language points that they want me to make videos about. So I usually create content based on what they need and what they want. So, yeah.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Fantastic. I mean, for both of you, how much is it about the learners and how much is it about you? Because you are influencers. Let's be realistic.
You are to some degree famous.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: Peaceful answers. Yeah.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: Okay.
So I mean, you know, you. You have a profile which most teachers couldn't imagine.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: I mean, so how much is it about. How do you kind of keep your. Keep your learners in mind?
[00:10:37] Speaker C: Alex, it's interesting what you just said there. I try to keep everything very much, very professional. I don't really like to be too personal with the things I post on that. I don't know about you, but I. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I feel like, yeah, it's important to.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: You want to make content that's more relatable to the students. Right. Something that they can get benefit from. Right.
So, yeah. Yeah, definitely not about that much, to be honest. It's more about our learners.
[00:11:07] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:11:07] Speaker B: Because we create content based on what students actually need.
Right. Yeah.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: So they don't invest in so much in you as personalities or.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: Well, well, it. I think the way how we teach, the way how we both teach may have, you know, a great impact on how they learn. Right.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: For sure.
[00:11:28] Speaker B: So, yeah.
[00:11:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: Our presence is also important.
[00:11:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I imagine. Of course. Yeah. If you like someone and you feel.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Warm, you know, you feel more connected.
[00:11:39] Speaker C: Exactly. You're going to learn better from them. So, of course, being friendly, being nice, being conversational. Yeah, it's all part of it.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:47] Speaker C: Yeah. When I was at school, the teachers that I learned the best from were the friendly ones, the nice ones, the ones took an interest. So if you can try to convey that across.
[00:11:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:55] Speaker C: 60 second video, then that's great.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:58] Speaker C: So that's kind of what I try to do.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Fantastic. And I'm sure teachers would agree with you, even though maybe they may feel uncomfortable being the focus in the classroom or the modern classroom.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: You still have to be, you know, the kind of engine you have to have enough charisma to be a good model.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's a mix both, to be honest.
[00:12:17] Speaker A: Great. Good.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: I mean, the online world is very hungry for content.
You can spend most of your waking hours creating it for consumption. How do you balance, how do you balance that? Because it's like a hamster wheel, isn't it? You know, you could stay on there all day and drive yourself crazy. So how do you make it sustainable marijuana?
[00:12:38] Speaker B: Well, I think you should have a timetable.
So what I do is I, I usually make content or start recording on the weekends and I start posting them on the weekdays.
So I try to, I try to make those videos that are more relatable to my students. For example, I post a story, I say, okay, what do you want me to teach you? What kind of videos do you want me to make for you?
So what kind of language point do you find more challenging? So what skill do you want to improve?
So I received some comments from my followers and then I try.
[00:13:25] Speaker A: My followers.
[00:13:27] Speaker B: Our followers, let's say.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: No, no, I mean, you know, like it is.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So. And I pick those language points that they actually need.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: And then I start recording. So.
But I do my best in order not to feel burnt out because as you know, there are times you feel exhausted.
So in order to avoid that, I try to take a step back. I try to, you know, take a few breaks and then come back with fresh ideas in order to make my content more effective and engaging for my audience.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: Great. So you reach out to your audience.
[00:14:05] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: You develop content based on what they say, but you're quite careful to sort of not over commit yourself and burnout.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:14:12] Speaker A: Brilliant. Alex, what about you? I mean, you know, you seem like quite a private person actually, and you, you intimated that with your comments about sort of what you keep back. I mean, is that A factor in how you kind of sort of, you know, prevent burnout or make it sustainable.
[00:14:30] Speaker C: Yeah, it's difficult. I think it's all about balance, isn't it? With anything anyone does. And with the social media, if you wanted to, and I know other teachers spend just hours looking at every comment, everything.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: This hasn't got life, which is very time consuming. Right, Exactly. Yeah.
[00:14:46] Speaker C: And it's, it's pointless because you're never going to be happy because you're always chasing something.
[00:14:50] Speaker B: But there are times if you don't do that, you feel like you are behind.
[00:14:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: So yeah, you get that feeling as well.
[00:14:56] Speaker C: Exactly. And then you go on to just Instagram or Tick Tock or something, for example.
[00:15:01] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:15:01] Speaker C: And a thousand other teachers have been posting while you haven't, you know, so there is like a.
There doesn't you mean to be a competition? But yeah, ends up being that a little bit. But when you talk about how do you keep it in its place? How do you not, you know, keep your schedule? Usually for me, I prioritize.
If, say I want to do five videos, I would just spend. Okay, I'm going to slot this off this afternoon. I've got a slot now where I'm going to record all those videos. I've made sure I've got someone there to help me do that and then schedule those so that I'm not over committing myself to just being on social media all the time because.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that's not very exhausting.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: Right, yeah, exactly.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:43] Speaker A: You, you mentioned someone to help you do that. Yeah. Who is in your team? Eh? I mean, you look like you're sort of lone wolves. You're. Yeah, you know, sort of. It's just me and the camera. But there must be people who sort of support you and help you.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Well, it depends on the time and location, to be honest. For example, if I go out, so sometimes I ask strangers on the street.
Really, there are times that I do that.
[00:16:08] Speaker C: Have you had any strange experiences with that?
[00:16:10] Speaker B: Sorry?
[00:16:10] Speaker C: Has anyone ever said no?
[00:16:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I received this kind of reaction from people, but yeah, mostly, yeah, People are friendly in general, but I don't ask everyone, to be honest. There are times I ask my classmates or even my teachers.
Yeah, yeah, they helped me out with the, with the recording and stuff.
[00:16:32] Speaker A: So you very much kind of recruit from either the public or people in your immediate sort of peer group. Yeah, stuff like that. Alex, what about you? Have you got a sort of team of makeup artists, people helping you?
Your fiance, I'm sure she's Far too busy planning the honeymoon.
[00:16:50] Speaker C: Yeah, that's right. I am probably quite different in that I'm very specific about how I like it done.
So I always feel really bad for whatever friend or family member or whoever is doing it for me, because I am very much make sure it's like this or this or this. Which is annoying for them.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: You're quite demanding.
[00:17:09] Speaker C: I am quite demanding.
I am a diva. Yeah. When it comes to that. So, yeah. So usually kind of a friend or family member who's nearby.
Yeah, pretty much. Sometimes I use a tripod, but I prefer it when there's someone actually doing it with the movement.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: And sometimes you feel like they get bored of you.
[00:17:24] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: They're tired of recording you.
[00:17:26] Speaker C: Just one more.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: Yeah, that means.
[00:17:29] Speaker A: Yeah, great.
Yeah. It is nice to actually sort of. Even though it's online, it's nice to kind of work with someone, isn't it, behind the camera?
You know, you want that live connection even though it's online. Yeah, exactly. That live connection like we've got today.
[00:17:44] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Fantastic. Good. Okay, let's pivot a little bit because we're talking about how you do your stuff.
You know, in terms of content creation and online content creation, was there a single kind of event, like a definitive breakthrough moment when you maybe thought, okay, I can do this and I'm going to make this video and marijuana.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Well, I can tell you something very interesting.
So I still remember a video that I recorded and I posted and it went very viral.
I want to talk about that moment and that event.
So I was acting as a barista. Okay. The setting of the video was in the cafe, and I was acting as a barista, and I asked one of my colleagues to act as a customer. Okay.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: Standard ELT situation.
[00:18:38] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: Unit four.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: Exactly. And then.
And then he entered the cafe and he said, hey, coffee maker.
Oh, I said, excuse me, I'm not a coffee maker, I'm a barista. This is a coffee maker.
I'm not an object, I'm a human being.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: Lovely.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: That was very funny. And that video went very viral.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: Believe me, until now, there are so many people are calling me a coffee maker.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: Oh, like a kind of nickname.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. Yes. Yeah. It was very funny, to be honest. Yeah. And it went very viral.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah. I mean, that's a great example of kind of something which wasn't planned, but there's a bit of humor there. And it kind of broke through. I mean, Alex, have you got a kind of sort of breakthrough moment when you thought, wow, I can do This, I want to get into this. This is really taking off.
[00:19:35] Speaker C: That's a great question, actually. Well, for me, at the beginning, I really didn't want to do it, to be honest. I thought it was a bit. My uncle actually does the same thing and it was probably about two years ago, I think now, and I was working with a company like most of us have probably done and just wasn't enjoying it. And I thought, I can help these students so much more and I can make it so much more easier and better if I just take into my own hands. But I didn't really know what to do. And my uncle said, well, why don't you just start posting on social media because you can connect with students, you can help people, you can do it that way.
But I was a little bit. Oh, that's a bit cringe. Embarrassing, isn't it, to do that? I don't, you know, so that's a very British response. I think it is.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: You're saying, cringe, everyone saying, yes, come on, let's go for it.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:23] Speaker C: So. But then I thought, you know what.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Let'S just give it a go.
[00:20:26] Speaker C: Let's just do it. So I did it and I really enjoyed it and I thought, this is. This is so great. And the feedback was really nice. And it kind of just went from there, basically.
[00:20:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Do you remember your very first video, how it went?
Your most viral video? That. Yeah. Okay. I should be doing this.
[00:20:45] Speaker C: Yeah. When I think about my first videos and if I look back now.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:20:48] Speaker C: I'm like, who is that?
[00:20:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:50] Speaker C: Embarrassing.
[00:20:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:52] Speaker C: And it's just me in my bedroom, in looking out the window with the camera there, just doing very basic things. But it kind of shows you really, that you don't need to look perfect exactly. To. To teach or to connect.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: So, yeah, maybe that's one of the secrets actually is. Is looking genuine.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: Looking authentic.
[00:21:12] Speaker B: Just put yourself out there. Yeah, yeah. And you never know is going to happen.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: Yeah. You think about the number of pop stars who started in their bedroom.
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Eh?
[00:21:18] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So why not? I mean, I mean, in terms of kind of lifting the lid on sort of trade secrets and, you know, the reasons for your success. I mean, we talked about authenticity just there. What else would you say? I mean, why are you so successful?
[00:21:32] Speaker B: Well, I think it's because of the way how I teach and I feel like the way how I make videos is going to be very effective for my learners. Students feel more connected to the style that I teach and I try to make Those videos that are more relatable to my students.
So I make videos based on what they need, based on what they want, based on what they ask me to do. So I think this is one of the reasons why I'm successful to that level.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: Very interesting, because I remember back in the day when I was a teacher, you would do a needs analysis.
[00:22:13] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: You know, you start by working out what your students want and then you give it them. And that's exactly what you're doing.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: So it's kind of reassuring to see that that's not, not really changed. Alex, what about you? I mean, why are you so successful?
That's really cringe. You gotta answer it. Come on, embrace the love.
[00:22:29] Speaker C: And I'm small fry compared to embrace the.
[00:22:31] Speaker A: Well, I think, I think, to be fair, I think you're different fry.
[00:22:34] Speaker C: Okay, I'll take that, I take that. I, I think when you talk about trade secrets or anything like that.
[00:22:40] Speaker A: Yeah, just, you know, sort of.
[00:22:41] Speaker C: I think consistency, to be honest, is the most important thing. Doing like creating great videos is great. If you just post one amazing video and it gets 20 million likes, but then you never post again, then what's the point of that? But if you consistently show up every week, every day, every couple of days you post something, then you're going to get traction. People are going to invest in you.
[00:23:05] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:23:06] Speaker C: Consistency.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Your followers will get more engaged. Right. They trust you more because you're consistent. But if you lose that consistency, I think going to lose followers at the same time. This is how the algorithm works.
[00:23:18] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay.
[00:23:19] Speaker A: Okay. So it's this idea of being consistent and keeping it going and having a kind of regular feed that people can trust and enjoy. And that takes us nicely onto this idea of microlearning. You know, these little sort of bits.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: That are stitched together, connected together.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: I mean, tell me a bit more about microlearning. I mean, what do you understand by it? Well, how does it work in an ELT context?
[00:23:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, as we all know that microlearning is all about delivering information in small and focused chunks.
And this is what social media is all about. As we know that social media is all about creating bite sized content because people do not have enough time to watch long videos, so they try to learn something within a short space of time.
So I believe that microlearning can be very effective for the language learners in order to improve their language points. For example, students do not have time to read, you know, bulky grammar books. Right. Or dictionaries.
[00:24:26] Speaker A: So we publish A lot of bulky grammar books and dictionaries. Be careful.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But yeah, so they tend to watch short reels. All right. In order to learn neat things.
For example, you pick a language point, it can be a pronunciation tip, a grammar tip, or common expression, and student can digest it more easily. But if you make long videos or long content, I think they get bored.
So as you know, the attention span of English learners, the generation Alpha, is very limited. So. Yeah, I heard.
[00:25:06] Speaker A: I heard an interesting stat recently that if Gen Alpha have to watch a video that's longer than 60 seconds, they become anxious.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: Absolutely. Which is the thing that they don't learn.
[00:25:16] Speaker A: Kind of amazing and kind of scary at the same time. Alex, in terms of these kind of micro learning moments, I mean, how do you put them together? I mean, I know you have a kind of sort of school and that sort of stuff and a program and whatever else, but how do these little moments become a kind of course?
[00:25:33] Speaker C: It's a difficult one really. I think if you went back.
Where are you now? If you went back 20 years.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:41] Speaker C: This type of learning I don't think would be that effective.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:25:44] Speaker C: Because for me, I'm 28. I've kind of been brought up with this social media world. So you talk about you can't watch a video for more than 60 seconds and people feel anxious. I feel like on some level I could probably relate to that.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:59] Speaker C: So. Because everyone is on their phones nowadays, aren't they?
[00:26:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:03] Speaker C: So you kind of. We've been almost trained to learn in that style because that's what media kind of is now.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:26:11] Speaker C: And everything kind of gets shorter. Like songs get short, music's getting shorter, episodes seem to be shorter.
So when you talk about it being kind of grouped together in moments like that, I can only kind of relate to the experience that I've had. If I've been learning another language, I definitely would agree with that. You said English learners can get bored quite quickly.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:34] Speaker C: If I'm learning a language and it's long courses and hours and hours and hours and big, big things, I get bored really easily. So I need the short things to. To keep me engaged and keep me motivated. So, yeah, you can kind of some type of answer to that question.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:50] Speaker A: You seem to be saying that students kind of are doing the work themselves. They're managing to kind of connect those moments themselves somehow. Because they're gen Alpha, they have that sort of ability to put it together.
[00:27:01] Speaker B: Absolutely. I think microlear, like puzzle pieces.
[00:27:05] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: Right. So, for example, students, they learn a language point, let's say a pronunciation tip. Okay. This is one piece. Okay. And then they learn another tip. For example, a grammar tip. This is the second piece. Okay. And then they connect all these dots or pieces together to get the full picture. So a course like this can be created and students can get benefit from it.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: That's a lovely analogy, actually, that idea of sort of putting together puzzle P or jigsaw pieces together. So thinking of this jigsaw, what does the jigsaw look like in, say, five years time for Gen Alpha students? Alex? I mean, how is it going to change? How's it going to evolve? How's it going to develop? Or is it just going to sort of take off?
[00:27:51] Speaker C: I would imagine the.
I think AI's obviously going to have an effect.
[00:27:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:57] Speaker A: I was waiting for those two actors.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: To make an appearance.
[00:27:59] Speaker A: Tell us more.
[00:28:00] Speaker C: Yeah, Well, I think. I think a lot of people are afraid of AI, but it's here to stay. Yeah. And it reminds me of when, I don't remember this, but when the Internet came about, lots of people were probably afraid of that and wanted to avoid it. But then as kind of time has gone on and the world has changed, you cannot avoid it. You need to use those things. So I feel it's going to happen and that's going to be the same with AI. And I think that's great because I can be your personal teacher for loads of students who maybe can't afford traditional education and they're going to have the opportunities to develop in a much more accessible way.
So when you talk about how it's going to look in the future, I think it's going to be a lot more accessible, whereas traditionally, perhaps it's been a bit more difficult.
[00:28:48] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:28:49] Speaker A: So in terms of AI marijuana, a lot of people who are watching this will be curious, but also potentially kind of worried about AI and wondering whether their jobs as teachers are going to be sort of out the window. I mean, what can you tell us about that? I mean, will they, won't they.
[00:29:07] Speaker B: Well, I don't think they will be able to replace teachers. Okay. Because human interaction is very, very important. Right. When it comes to.
Especially speaking. Yeah. Students may learn some vocabularies through some applications, but when it comes to real conversations. So they need real teachers in real.
So I believe that the AI tools can take, well, some jobs. Okay. But not all the jobs in general.
[00:29:44] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: But we as teachers, I think we might be a bit safe, but it's good news. That you think, yeah, we might be safe. We never know. But yeah, but, yeah, yeah. Students, they can learn vocabulary, common expressions, phrase, phrasal verbs, phrases through some applications. But when it comes to speaking skills, I believe they desperately need a teacher in real life.
[00:30:14] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great to hear. I mean, that whole. The whole thing around kind of, what can a teacher do? Well, you know, speaking skills, develop confidence, that kind of thing. If. If I look at both of the content that you produce on social, a lot of it is about speaking skills, about building confidence, about building vocabulary.
What about things like error correction? I mean, you, marijuana, you talked about correcting some of your students when they write to you.
[00:30:39] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:30:41] Speaker A: Is that okay? Do they mind?
[00:30:43] Speaker B: Well, well, it depends on the mistake. Okay. There are some mistake that students make a lot, and they want to be corrected by an expert. Okay. So these. There are a lot of students who think that they can learn through their mistakes.
So I believe that it's very important to correct some of the mistakes that students are making, but not all the mistakes, because I received so many comments from students saying that I've been saying this wrong all my life. So thank you very much for correcting me. Or, for example, the difference between cook and a cooker. So there are a lot of students who don't know the difference between a cook or and a cooker. So one of them is the person. The other one is the machine. Right.
[00:31:31] Speaker A: The oven or whatever.
[00:31:32] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Or a coffee maker and barista. Right.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:37] Speaker B: And so, yeah, it depends on the mistake. So I believe that students can learn from their mistakes as well, but they should not be corrected all the time because they lose their confidence. They think that they cannot learn. Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:50] Speaker A: I think when we're beginner teachers, we often feel, oh, my God, I've got to jump on this mistake to prove that I'm kind of hear that I'm worth it, you know, because I'm the kind of gate peak and stuff.
[00:32:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:01] Speaker A: I mean, Alex, what about error correction and that sort of stuff? I mean, does anything. Is anything okay or. Or a bit like marijuana? Do you sort of. Are you selective? How do you.
[00:32:11] Speaker C: It's difficult when you're just putting videos up on social media. I think it's impossible to correct them unless they obviously comment something and you take the time to go through and check those. But if you're actually doing a lesson with a student, which I do as well, then I will.
I won't. Like you said, I won't jump on them straight away and say, oh, you Said did a mistake rather than make a mistake. But later I'll say, oh, just earlier you said this. What do you think is wrong with that? And get them to try and fix their own mistake from something we've covered before, or kind of circle back to it in the next week with a lesson covering those type of mistakes. It's difficult because, yeah, you don't want to kind of reduce their confidence, but also that's what they want. If you're learning a language, you want to be corrected because you don't want to keep making the mistakes. And if they can make the mistake with you, who they feel comfortable with.
[00:33:03] Speaker B: They think, yeah, they think that they cannot make a progress. Right. So they want someone to correct them to see their progress.
[00:33:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So maybe the online space isn't necessarily the best place for correction. Maybe that's where we build confidence and we sort of allow students to really, you know, embrace the language, but in a separate sort of context. That's where we can kind of nail things like accuracy and that sort of stuff.
[00:33:27] Speaker C: Unless they identify their own mistakes from seeing a video which explains how to say a grammar point, and then they realize, oh, I've been making that mistake, and then they can fix it themselves. I think that's probably the only way. Yeah, because you're not.
[00:33:41] Speaker A: Well, that's really powerful, isn't it? Where students recognize their own mistake, they become the teacher.
[00:33:47] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:33:47] Speaker A: And they can pick up and say, okay, I did that. I'm going to correct it in this way.
[00:33:50] Speaker B: As you know, it's all about noticing. So it's very important for SUIT to help students to notice their own mistakes. And from there, I believe that they can improve their English skills in general.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: Brilliant. Brilliant. So, based on what we've heard, I mean, you two guys are deeply involved in online content creation, but I think we can also hear that you are teachers through and through, as well as being learners in a way.
What would you say to teachers who.
Who feel a bit like that, who sort of. Well, I know the business, but I want to get out there and I want to maybe experiment with putting myself in an online space.
Maybe just a video or something or whatever. I mean, what kind of tip would you give Marijuana?
[00:34:32] Speaker B: First and foremost, do not be afraid of putting yourself out there. Just try to hold a phone, put it on the stand, and start recording. This is what you should do right away. You should not be afraid of how you look in the camera. Doesn't matter how you look. You don't have to sound perfect. Not at all. Just try to pick a language point that you think your students need the most and then try to explain it in the best way possible.
You should sound very clear.
And then, yeah, just put yourself out there and don't be afraid of, you know, receiving some, you know, bad comments from some people. That's totally fine.
[00:35:19] Speaker A: Yeah. So there is negative feedback.
[00:35:21] Speaker B: Yeah, there are times you may receive some bad comments, but that's totally okay. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: So maybe it's about sort of using your natural teacher skills.
[00:35:31] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:35:31] Speaker A: Put yourself out there and just sort of holding a phone.
[00:35:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:34] Speaker A: I mean, Alex, what about you? I mean, you know, a couple of secrets for maybe or bits of advice for people who sort of think, I could be the next Alex.
The next teacher Alex.
[00:35:44] Speaker C: It's actually one of the things I encourage a lot of my students to do who are. So some of my students are English teachers themselves and there'll be a non native speaker and they'll think, oh, well, I can't be an English teacher. But some of the best English teachers are non native speakers because they've experienced it themselves.
And I think you just need to, like you said, put yourself out there, don't be afraid of any backlash of it and just try. Because the worst that's going to happen is not really that bad.
[00:36:15] Speaker A: Well, I suppose the worst that's going to happen is you won't go viral.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: And it might be the opposite.
One of your videos may get a lot of views.
So from there you can gain lots of followers and then you can build a community for yourself.
[00:36:31] Speaker A: Fantastic. I love the excitement idea, the experimentation behind it, because you never know what's going to go viral. You never know what students really will like. And so if you start small and maybe just do something.
[00:36:41] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:36:42] Speaker A: It could take off.
[00:36:43] Speaker B: Absolutely. And the algorithm changes very quickly.
So you may put a lot of effort into making a video, but that video may not go that viral. But that's totally fine. Okay, so you can make another video, see how it works. And so, yeah, fantastic.
[00:36:59] Speaker A: I've noticed on some of your social stuff, you know, you talk about the fact that you're a native speaker and if you sort of want to sound like a native speaker or sound like me sort of thing, I mean, is that okay to sort of trade on that?
[00:37:11] Speaker C: This is the difficult thing, I think, because I have.
[00:37:13] Speaker A: The reason why I'm asking that is kind of, you know, back in the day when I was a teacher, I had some students who would say, I want to be in Andrew's class because he's a native speaker. He's the real deal. And I was like, that's really embarrassing.
[00:37:23] Speaker B: But this is.
Especially if you go to the Middle East. They want.
Students want to be taught by native teachers.
[00:37:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Let's be honest.
[00:37:33] Speaker A: There's still a kind of premium on it. I mean, how does that make you feel?
[00:37:37] Speaker B: Well, we don't know what to do because that's how the world works.
But I believe we, as non native teachers, we know firsthand the challenges, the problems, the mistakes the students usually make.
So I believe students, they get more, you know, motivated when they see someone like me who has walked the same path and succeeded.
[00:38:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:08] Speaker B: So if they see me, okay, this guy is from Kurdistan, which is a region in Iraq.
He's learned English by himself, so I can do that too.
But if they see you, like, let's say Alex. Okay. Yeah. He's a native speaker, so that's it. Right. But they get inspired when they see someone like me who has learned English.
[00:38:35] Speaker A: I suppose there's a kind of democratization behind it as well. I mean, I don't want to get too kind of post colonial.
[00:38:41] Speaker C: No.
[00:38:41] Speaker A: But I mean, to a certain extent, you know, you're English, I'm English. You know, here we are in Oxford, you know, kind of. We own the language, we have the dictionary and all this kind of stuff. But I mean, what you're talking about there is kind of. Well, you know, it's beyond that. English is English. It's an international language, and you've walked that pathway.
[00:38:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:00] Speaker A: You know, they can see that. If you can do it, they can do it.
[00:39:02] Speaker B: Yeah. It's.
[00:39:03] Speaker A: It's different. It's attainable, it's democratic.
[00:39:06] Speaker B: It's. The idea is still there in the world of ESL industry, unfortunately, even when you want to find a job, you say, okay, your passport is not British, so.
[00:39:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:19] Speaker B: So you will not be able to teach here or.
[00:39:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And I face this kind of problem a lot, to be honest, whenever I want to teach, like in international university or school, even in back home.
So I face this problem.
[00:39:33] Speaker A: Yeah. So how much is it incumbent on us to kind of break down that thing that says native speaker is kind of the.
Either the accent or the approach. Yeah. The goal standard. And how much is it about kind of the students where we actually have to sort of. Because you talked about.
[00:39:50] Speaker B: You have to make them aware, to be honest. You have to know that. Yeah. Just because you are a native teacher, that does not mean, you know, everything.
So the same. It's true for the non native teachers as well. Just because they are non native that does not mean they can't teach you. Yeah, effectively. But unfortunately, yeah, it takes time.
[00:40:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Brilliant. All right guys, thank you so much for today. It's been absolutely fascinating.
As soon as this finishes I'm going to get online and bump up my social media profile. But it's been really, really great to have you here at OUP today.
So that's it for this special episode of Talking elt. A massive thank you to Marijuana and Alex for sharing their journeys, insights and the exciting ways content creation is shaping the future of language learning. If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to follow share and leave us a review and stay tuned as we continue exploring the evolving world of ELT one episode at a time.
Thanks for watching and listening and we'll see you again soon right here on Talking ELT.
